Ferrari - What a load of "Prancing Horse Poo"
- Published on Jul 25th, 2010 by Adam MilleneuveHere at Badger, we're not going to hold back on this one and we hope you agree that the headline sums up the way Fernando Alonso won the German Grand Prix with the legendary Italian team.
In short the race unfolded for the red cars with Alonso being squeezed off the line by Vettel, while Massa simply drove away and passed the pair or them. The front two remained in control of the race with not even the Red Bull cars being able to keep up with them.
While going through traffic, Massa had a tough time and Alonso had an opportunity to pass but Massa drove superbly to keep his teammate at bay in 2nd. It clearly looked like Alonso was quicker, but Massa pulled out a gap of over 3 seconds with fastest lap after fastest lap. Alonso caught back up again when going through traffic, but he could not find a way of getting past to take the lead.
Instead, on lap 48 Feliple Massa's race engineer came on the team radio and said in a tone that made it clear he didn't really want to say it...
Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understand that message?
It was the most blatant attempt of team orders since it was enforced that teams can't instruct drivers to slow down and change positions. The fact that Ferrari did it for the lead when Massa clearly won the lead fair and square is outrageous.
Alonso should not be publicly displaying joy at winning today's grand prix because it's a false victory, along with his Singapore victory of 2008.
Image credit: Bokko via Flickr
I hope the FIA have the balls to kick them out, They wont though
DSQ. No other option.
The Ferrari team should lose points from today. A fine would not be enough. Can't see the FIA DSQ them though...
Nurburgring 2008. Tell me what happened there. While you do that, let me hit the unlike button on F1 badger.
Please do tell. We didn't race on the Nurburgring in 2008...
ok.. same circuit.. so please do telll.. same race 2 years ago.. same hairpin...
Nope can't remember. Sorry mate...
Can't find an Edit button, so
EDIT:
I've googled up the 08 german gp, (it was on Hockenheim, like this one. I guess you just got the names mixed up;). I can't find anyrhing unusual about that race, it was pretty straightforward. Glock crashed about halfway, but that's about it...
well ofcourse u wouldn't ...
after reading the wikipedia on the 2008 german GP... i also have no idea what you're blathering on about
Hekki moved over to allow Lewis to get passed. That's what he is trying to say, but Lewis actually was significantly faster than Heikki as you could see when he overtook Nelson and Felipe later on in the race.
Lewis was allowed to pass Heikki.
That shouldn't have been allowed either.
Although it has to be said, Lewis was by far the better driver that year and was leading the World Championship.
Heikki was not up to speed that year and probably cost Mclaren the constructers title that year since the two ferrari drivers were so closely matched eventually finishing second and third.
If you want a real car buy a Lamborghini or you´ll need someone to stand aside for you
If this was football, and a manager was found to be fixing a game (i don't know, by putting a striker in goal or something), then he would be sacked, his team fined and punished by being docked points, or even relegated. Same should happen here - ferrari should be thrown out of the season, the results amended, so it's a vettel victory (or at the very least swap the ferraris back over.
Felipe was not holding alonso up, he had the speed to keep going, and I bet he's regretting that 2 year contract sitting in his office...
Ferrari (and Domenicalli in particular on the BBC) think we're all a bunch of morons. A disgrace considering what Massa has been through in the last year - a year to the day!
Massa upshifted 3 gears at once after the instruction according to Rob Smedley - there's the data for the stewards' enquiry!
they showed an onboard replay with the throttle map during the race. felipe only used half throttle on the exit
Come on Adam, a little integrity would be nice. As a poster has pointed out above (albeit in slightly clouded terms), McLaren did exactly the same thing at the same circuit in 2008 (and at the previous race), yet no one even batted an eyelid. And team orders have been deployed at many races by many teams (China '08, Canada '08, Brazil '07, USA '06, Spa '05, Canada '05....)
This is not new. This is not original. The fans and the media need to grow up.
The 'blatancy' of this one is what's riled the fans and us at Badger - surely you can understand that. Yes team orders have been involved in F1 before always will do due to the nature of teams being 'teams' as well as two drivers. Many didn't enjoy the Schumacher period of dominance and especially when Rubens had to move over to let him by. Similarly DC had to move over famously to let Hakkinen win in Australia - almost identical to how Massa did today for Alonso. It doesn't make it right and it escapes me how Alonso can be chuffed with the win - it wasn't a result of his performance.
And here's something to consider (going with the line that Alonso is further ahead in the championship and therefore was given the win) - what if the same happens in Hungary - will Massa be told to lift off again? Ok so that would put Alonso in a good position to fight to glory, but then what if Alonso broke his legs in an accident and was out for the rest of 2010, with Massa left to bring the team glory, unfortunately despite winning races hey may end up 7points shy of the title - 7 points he should have had today.
Yes there are a lot of 'ifs' there but it does back up the reasoning for this article.
If McLaren did it win Lewis and Button today, it would be their name next to a picture of some horse dung (but the headline wouldn't be as amusing)
There are still plenty of races to go in an incredibly unpredictable season, too many to start 'fixing' which one of two drivers should take the chequered flag first.
Is this a fair point Andy?
Exactly why Ferrari didn't need to do what they did. Maybe I'd understand if it was the last couple of races, but there are eight races to go and Ferrari have a better car tahn they did at the start of the year.
If Fernando is as good a driver as he claims to be then he should be able to pass his teammate properly.
Here is a link to an interview he did before the seaason started: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/feb/23/fernando-alonso-interview-ferrari-formula-one
The last paragraph reads as follows:
If he wins the title like this, could he really be happy with himself?
The important difference is that kf it wasn't for this teamorder, Massa would've won the race. Now, he had to let Alonso pass him. In most other situations, teams ask their drivers to not fight, leaving a gap of a second or so, in that case the one in front wins, whoever it is.
I can't clearly remember Hockenheim 08, but didn't it have to do with one of the two being about 2 secs per lap quicker than the other, and the team asking the latter one not to make a fuss and just let him past already?
Yup, that's the crux of the argument for me. The "team" still had a 1-2. The "team" still got 40-something points. How is it then the right result for the "team" in gifting Alonso the victory at Massa's expense after clearly being the faster driver from lap 1?
There is still so much more to play for in this season's championship, and there is no need for this to happen with 200 points still available in the season.
What I find most intriguing is why Felipe Massa would even want to race for a team who work so incredibly hard ... to ruin any chance he may have of winning a championship.
He'd be better off racing for a team where he actually has a chance to truly race, even if they're not necessarily the fastest team. If Barrichello had switched away from Ferrari earlier would he be a world champion by now?
hmmm
I agree with Andy, but I also support the point made about Ferrari's lack of subtlety.
> `there are a lot of ‘ifs’'
Surely, but some of the `ifs' are more likely than others, therefore one sticks with the most likely ones. Alonso fighting for glory is more likely than him breaking his legs, ergo you give him the chance for fighting. (Actually wishing someone to get broken legs isn't very nice).
> How is it then the right result for the “team”
Each F1 team aims at winning both the drivers and constructors championships. Winning either reflects well on the winning team. The 1-2 increased Ferrari's chances of winning the latter. Alonso's victory *optimally* increased his (and Ferrari's) chances of winning the former. Optimally is the keyword here, because Massa's victory wouldn't have achieved that.
Despite what has happened "in the past" the rules are quite clear that 'team orders' should play no part in the final position of the participants whilstthe race is conducted. Ferrari quite obvioulsy implemented team orders in this case since it asked Massa's own engineer to inform him of information in such a fashion as to lack relevance (he should have said Alonso is catching yo up or similar) the engineer apologised to Massa after Alonso overtook him why exactly?? if the move was legal what is there to apologise for? The pulic who paid money to go and watch the event live where rightfully jipped out of what (if things had continued) would have been a natural result crashes or faliures notwithstanding. The larger issue here is how the Licensed gambling industry will look upon this, they have a vested interest in the 'randomness' of certain factors and the 'likelyhood' of a particular racer winning the event, this is how they calculate their odds and offer a service to their customers. How many people I wonder had money on Massa to win only to see Ferrari take their potential winnings away? In any other sport this is known as match fixing and when betting syndicates are involved is usually (at least in the UK) a matter for Her majestys fraud sqaud....in literal terms I can see nothing other than fixing in what Ferrari did today.
The punishment $100,000 (£60k) what's that then....a couple of break disks? half a steering wheel?? are the FIA serious? how is that a punishment! Ferrari spend that much on Loo roll for the weekend FFS such a pitiful fine sends entirely the wrong message and now sets a precedent for the rest of the season. What if Maclaren decide now that they can 'fix' the outcome of the remaining season for $800,000 why not? the FIA obviously can't dock points...what's good for Ferrari must be good for everyone else right? for me the worst thing about this whole affair? Poor old Massas face on that podium....there's a man considering his carrer future if you ask me
Each and every person who had money on Massa should write and ask Ferrari for the money they placed on the bet back.
It absolutely sets a precedent. What it does is put a price on breaking the rules. Ferrari most likely would see a much heavier fine if they repeated today's insult, but any other team in a similar position can look at this and say, "for the sake of a 100 grand, shall we just rig the result of this race and apologise for it later?" Ferrari know they've done wrong, or they'd have appealed the fine. Good of the sport, my a**. But you have to wonder, does Alonso's contract say that he will be favoured? Was this the team's decision for the long term, or are they abiding by rules that Alonso's management holds them to?
In my prejudice I'm inclined to blame Alonso and presume the latter.
Ferrari deliberately changed the outcome of a race in breach of the sporting regulations. Whether or not other teams have explicit or covert 'team orders' or have done in the past is irrelevant to this issue. In the 2010 German GP, Ferrari are judged by the race stewards to have broken the rules and will have to suffer the consequences. The worst 'crime' here though is the inept way Ferrari executed the team orders. Rob Smedley clearly didn't agree with the decision and, to his credit, made that plain in his transmissions, possibly affecting his own standing with the team's management. Massa equally showed his feelings about the decision in the drivers' conference and subsequent interviews. How Ferrari should be punished is not for fans to say - it is a matter for the FIA and WMSC. Let's hope that in the context of other race-altering judgements and punishments there is some consistency.
Alonso's relationship within McLaren, his race win gift from Renault via a staged crash and now this seem to be evidence of a man whose desire to win - and be seen to win - transcends what he can do on the circuit. I'm not suggesting Alonso tells Ferrari what to do but it seems to me that he encourages favouritism and does not have the humility to be grateful when things - for whatever reason - fall into his lap.
Dunno about you lot, but as soon as Massa let Alonso past I switched the TV off and went to do something else. I just wish they'd done it sooner so I didn't waste so much time waiting for the Massa-Alonso battle to kick off.
Breaking the team orders rule - $100,000.
Speeding under SC conditions - 5 second time penalty.
The FIA are building up some very dodgy precedents here!!
The photo shows what Ferrari made of the field behind them! Made everyone look like POOOOOOOO!!! Com'on Forza Ferrari! 1-2!!!
The tifosi reaction seems to be like that of a petulant 13 year old who's been caught doing something in class, 'Everyone else is doing it.'
Blatant infringement of the rules, massive contempt for the intelligence of the fans and a slap in the face to one of their drivers on a rather significant anniversary. It has to be punished, and I'd have a lot more respect for the Ferrari fans if they accepted that instead of whining.
here here Graham!
So if it is not blatant
(cf. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/jul/21/formulaone.motorsports)
then it's alright to break the rules, eh?
If it is not blatant it is just harder to prove. If it is proven then it should be punished. When it's as bleeding obvious as this then there is no question.
Rules is rules, you either enforce them or you scrap them - to have them in place and have them flouted so blatantly just makes the FIA look stupid.
If you break the rule, you are guilty.
Now, Ferrari broke the rule, and is therefore guilty. This is fine.
Others broke the rule too, albeit less blatantly, but they are not
guilty.
Then a certain rule applies for some cases, and another for other
cases. This a double standard which is inconsistent, and therefore
untenable.
A punishment for Ferrari would be OK. But then the same standard
should be also (retrospectively as well) applied to other teams.
As a side note, why do you think Mr. Whitmarsh didn't publicly comment
.
about this matter? "Cast the first stone" comes to my mind
Pictures tell better stories. While we all knew Kovalainen moved out of the way, he put himself in a position where he could argue that he misjudged his entry speed and accidently ran wide, which is how Lewis got past him.
Yes that's nonsense, but it wasn't done in a way that could be considered detrimental to the competition.
http://mut.li/to (3:08 is the pass)
Also it's worth noting that if that pass hadn't occurred then it would have negatively affected the competition of the race and we wouldn't have seen those great overtakes that Lewis performed on Massa and Piquet to regain the lead.
PS. I am a McLaren and Kovalainen fan so probably have a slightly skewed viewpoint, but am trying to remain neutral. I just think the situations are different because of the way that the orders were deployed by the drivers.