Pay or Nay?
by Craig Normansell with others, on Aug 3rd, 2011We tried to focus this week'd edition of the Scrutineering Bay on the on track action in Hungary. We really did. But, after Friday's announcement over TV rights, we could only ask one question, and one question only;
"Will you be paying to watch F1 on Sky?"
This week's writers to put their opinions across are myself, Craig Normansell, Adam Millenueve and returning to the Bay after a few months absence, Graham Moggipaldi;
The simple answer to this one is ‘No’, but to be honest, that is more to do with me being rather skint at the moment than any deep seated principles. I will need to see the full details of what the BBC coverage is going to be, which ten races they will be covering, how many will get delayed full coverage and how many will get extended highlights only. If they are going to be showing all twenty races in full, with half of them delayed, then I think I can live with that, since I end up watching a lot of the races delayed anyway as a result of family commitments.
I like the BBC coverage – I like the absence of adverts – and I can’t see myself enjoying the Sky coverage enough to make it worth paying extra for (anyway, I thought that was what the advertising revenue was for...) However, I must say that this is the only time I have even felt tempted to pay for TV.
Straight away Graham gets into the money issue. Are fans going to pay the cash needed when everyone is struggling?
Up next is Adam;
It's massively annoying that, after only 2 seasons, the BBC are to effectively lose F1 to Sky. Yes, half the races will still be live, but I doubt Sky will offer a subscription for only half races - it'll be all or nothing. So, I'm now going to be investing in Sky TV for 2012 - would of course rather not, but not watching F1 live just isn't an option. I doubt I'm alone in saying that, as much I don't want to, I will end up paying for Sky next year (and of course that's what they want to hear!)
The flip side is that, it may not be all that bad - Sky's coverage of footy, cricket, rugby and golf is second-to-none, according to fans of those sports and with their financial backing, the 2012 F1 coverage could be mind-blowingly good, with multiple cameras/feeds on different channels and all sorts of analysis - if true, the £50 per month fee would feel a little better. If I switch my internet provider to Sky as well, then the difference may not be so great either.
Of course, looking at the big picture, with less people able to watch F1 at home, there's greater need for more Badger GP LIVE bashes! It's not all bad at all!
Not all bad from Adam there. Sky can offer other things in the monthly fee other than F1, like broadband and more channels. Not that I'm championing them or anything.
And with that, it's my turn;
No. I will not, hands down, pay for Sky to watch F1. I was a Sky customer, had a contract with them and then cancelled it the Tuesday before the announcement. I was, and probably still am, extremely gutted.
I was lucky to afford the monthly fee for the sports channels for over 2 years, but thanks to a few signal issues and rubbish customer service, I got rid of it. And then Bernie jumps into bed with Murdoch and I'm forced to reconsider. But it's not for me - I've been bitten by Sky and I'm not giving them anymore of my hard earned cash.
So, where does that leave me? Luckily, I had already got some thoughts down here. I'm going to save a lot of money and 10 races a year will still be live for me, and I think that's the beauty of the deal. Instead of it all going to Sky in 2014, or even earlier, the BBC will still air half the season up until 2018.
That's a massive deal for them, and for the fans; it gives us the luxury of not paying to Sky, and still seeing live F1. Let's not forget that.
That's only a few opinions from some of Badger's writers. Will you be paying for F1 next season? Let us know!
Comments and Discussion
As a student, paying for F1 coverage is not an option. The amount of students who watch F1 is huge and I'm guessing that 99% of them won't be able to afford sky just to watch F1.
Anyway, we have a Sky Sports pub in liverpool anyway with all their channels playing at all times, so if I feel like watching it live, I can!
No, won't be paying for Sky, I'm a casual fan, I'll watch it if it's on. I'll probably listen to Crofty and Ant on 5Live, I prefer them to the Nytol Twins on BBC1 anyway, I can't justify the money to watch only ONE sport
I'm not sure that it will affect us here in Australia, though I haven't heard anything confirmed. It's only been in the last year or so that we have had live races here anyway, thanks to our One HD dedicated sports digital channel. We used to get delayed coverage on almost all the races, except the ones in the early hours of the morning, when nothing else is going to rate anyway! If BBC is still showing all the races in full, with half of them delayed, that's actually better than our previous deal, so not too difficult to live with if you want free coverage. I'm not a fan of pay TV, and I don't like this deal with Sky, as it's the beginning of the end for free coverage, it seems to me.
I'm currently a SKY subscriber, and I pay for the Movie package but not the sports package. I generally prefer to participate in sport rather than watch it, but F1 is a sport that I really enjoy watching. Partly as the closest I can get to participating in F1 is tearing down the M40 in my mini!
Still, I can't justify upgrading to the sports package just to watch F1 live. Like Graham, I have ended up watching most F1 races this year on SKY+ anyway. It's a pain to try and avoid the results (Twitter and Facebook are generally no-go areas on race day!), but generally I have to fit F1 around my life and watching it on playback is the only way I can feasibly do it, so from that perspective the delayed broadcast on the BBC won't affect me.
What I'm most disappointed about is the fact that the excellent BBC team will inevitably be broken up. Jake may stay as anchor for 2012 - after all, he's being primed as the London 2012 anchor, but I really can't see them keeping the excellent Martin Brundle in the commentary box.
The BBCs coverage has been brilliant, and while I'm sure SKY will try their best, I can't help but feel we will be treated to a quick blast telling us what football is coming up, and sadly I also feel we are on the slippery slope to F1 as Pay Per View.
This Mitchell & Webb parody is very good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBSG_-lP4_Y
Why pay Sky?
Just do what a load of football-cum-interwebs people do and stream it from some dubious feed out of Vietnam.
Why would anyone pay £50 a month to see some rubbishy coverage of a race with adverts in it every 5 mins. I will not be paying for it but the prospect of more live Badger gp bashes is great. I'll watch the 10 races on BBC and then just not listen to the radio or use the BBC website until they've aired it. And then with the extra £600 quid a year (£3600 if counting up until 2018) I'll use it to pay of university debts.
oooo how do I do that? it seems like a brilliant sollution, and a middle finger to the BBC for good measure.
Just to point out - Sky's coverage of Football, Golf and the like are supposedly very good - they have the resource and money to make it so.
Also, Sky have said that there will be no adverts during the racing, so that's a relief!
Hey, be nice to the Beeb, there's no need to be angry at them - the cutbacks are a result of government cuts and the need for the corporation to save money, so it's not their fault!
As for online feeds, we are aware of some out there, but it all seems a bit hit and miss and you won't get HD! They're also illegal so we at Badger can't and wouldn't endorse it!
To quote that annoying advert at the start of rented DVDs "you wouldn't steal a car"
And it's casual fans such as yourself where F1 loses out with this Sky deal, such a shame and won't do the sport much good. Watching highlights is never fun, and with Twitter being such a great asset to the F1 coverage these days, you'll be losing out on that to - unless we can setup a new Twitter group for people watching the highlights without knowing the result...
That's a definite positive out of all this - more social F1 viewing in pubs and the like, well at least the races at sensible times...
I generally fit F1 around my life, some days watch it live, some days highlights/delayed coverage. Since the arrival of Freeview, there is definitely no need for Sky in my life, so I'll be sticking to BBC coverage, glad they have some rather than none! Although it is a pain avoiding facebook/twitter/internet...
Agree with Andy above as well, the BBC team is probably going to be broken up which is a shame.
Sky have said they won't interrupt the coverage for adverts. Even so, I won't be subscribing!
What choice do F1 fans have? People say they won't pay or that they'd never give any money to Murdoch, but will they feel the same when a race is going on and they're watching Diagnosis Murder?
I pay £28 for broadband and telephone. I can get them from Sky, with Sky Sports for £52 a month (less if I cancel the sport in the off season).
So that's an extra £24 a month to watch F1. Not great considering it was free, but what can you do? I'm not messing about with illegal feeds and Crofty on 5 Live.
I'm not going to pay it. I already pay the TV license and I refuse to make yet another payment for a television product.
I refuse to pay twice for anything - which is what the fans are being asked to do - and I certainly will not start now.
It is their fault, they have huge resources which they choose to waste staffing a beaurocracy that would make Stalin blush. If they put the money on the screen instead of staffing huge PR departments and the like, then they could screen F1 and other top quality sport no problem.
I love Diagnosis Murder!
Leigh - why pay the TV Licence at all? All that happens if you cancel is that you get a templated junkmail letter from Capita once a month. Occasionally (once every 1-20 years) a Capita salesman might call, who is on commission to try and flog Direct Debits. Simply don't answer and they'll go away.
Never contact, never answer, never speak and you save yourself £145 a month. Plus you get some free hamster bedding once a month.
I honestly don't get all the complaining about this. Here in America we have to pay to get Speed (the channel that runs F1) and we STILL have to deal with commercials, so frankly, you guys have it lucky.
Nay. Illegal video streams will rule the day.
You right why are we complaining i was so silly not realising that you pay £600 a year for speed tv oh wait....you don't.
Online video streams simple! you get to see the exact same program as anyone watching on sky (because it is sky redirected) 100% free.
no lets be fair here badger maybe it's not the bbc's fault 100% but they cut short their contract by choice. We should have had 2 more years of free viewing. Barbara slater is an f1 hating fridged female dog who has made it her personal quest to get f1 axed simply because cuts have had to be made and she doesn't like f1 regardless of the 5 million+ per race viewers who do.
Me too!
Errr he just said they have to pay, you are assuming it is cheaper, when in my experience that isn't the case!
and bug ridden, illegal, full of virus', spyware, malware, people tapping the other of the feed to hijack your PC.
I bet you even use Internet Explorer as well?
I will be paying for Sky Sports, I have to, simple as really, no amount of whining is going to change that.
Football fans and cricket fans went through this years ago and they got over it in the end!
You never know it might actually be a worthwhile thing, sure we wont know till they start, but the football coverage is spot on as is the cricket, so as long as they put the level of effort into F1 as they do for the others it will be great and I will be stuck enjoying the races live as they happen whilst everyone else is complaining about how it used to be free!
Take a look at this...
http://www.mirrorfoo...icle689289.html
***UK broadcasters cannot prevent viewers using foreign satellite feeds to watch Premier League football matches, an adviser to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) has said.***
Actually not Illegal. See the court case the Premier League lost. Just wanted to point that out.
I wouldn't care if it was illegal nor do most other people in the world as for full of virus' i think maybe you have been surfing the wrong websites.
That's true, the races that are at ridiculous times are probably gonna be the ones on the BBC knowing our luck. But still I watch those 3-4 hours later anyway, so the delayed highlights won't matter that much if they happen to be on sky.
Ah well, you can't always have things your way!
Pay, pay and pay .... It's a disaster! Of course I will not be able to pay to watch all the races, so I will see some form online, or get used to seeing just the abstracts.
http://www.youtube.com/formulasantander
Something else to consider....
There are something like 25,000,000 TV licences in the UK (amazingly some 28,000 Black and White licences are still issued!)
So that's a potential viewing audience of 25,000,000 house holds. Peak viewing was 6,000,000 if I recall correctly. So that is around 19,000,000 who are probably happy with the decision.
Also having done some reading, Sky Sports offer a pay per match service on the Football through BT vision, they might do the same for F1!
Also you might be able to do a pay per race thing through Sky player but I need to check.
I think that's a very mature way to look at it.
Maybe, but i doubt others will see it that way!
Something like this is always going to be controversial not everyone will always be happy. I do understand peoples problem with it but i am in a fortunate enough position to be able to afford Sky Sports so i am less affected.
Maybe i can host a local F1 viewership club or something, would be quite cool to get a bunch of like minded people round to watch F1 on a regular basis! I could even invite Badgers!
Ok so eastenders gets around 7nillion viewers so should the bbc get rid of as well? 6 million is a big audience.
Sky TV or running and insuring my bike, choices choices.
Murdoch loses.
Yes, yes they should, I would be one of the 18,000,000 supporting the decision to remove that trash from our televisions!
Also you have kind of demonstrated my point .....
You'd probably find a broader demographic watching Eastenders, F1 is largely (and there's no denying this) white middle-class men. That's just a fact. Deadenders is also cheaper, it never over-runs, you can use it to fulfill obligations such as raising awareness of social issues and it won't hold you to ransom over money like Bernie will. I agree that it's rubbish though.
Your right Badger, I personaly wouldn't steal a car. I would however protest very strongly if a car I had free Hi Def use of was suddenly taken from me. To have the same HD use of that "Car" is now going to cost me £500+ a year even though the car owners contract states that it should be free. The provider of that "Car" had a contract to supply it for free that hadn't expired. As a stakeholder in that provider through an annual licence fee I have been robbed by them.
Because of this I would have no problems whatsoever using / supporting an illegal streaming service and reccomend everyone else does too.
The argument that I'm not interested in Football / Cricket / Golf so why should I pay is irrelevant for me. I don't have the cash to spend even if I wanted to.
I have watched nearly every race since 1976 and I will watch F1 live by hook or crook, I just won't pay sky for the privellage.
That said I think that you Badger have a very important role to play here. More Badger bashes at the sports bar please! If I'm going to have to pay one way or another I'd rather hand over my hard earned readies tosomeone who deserves it!
Sky - Sod off. Don't ruin our sport. Stick to the games you cover already.
Forgot to add- If the beeb is so hard up why spend millions on moving everyone from London to Manchester? a waste of time and money. They're only going to make most of them redundant when the licence fee is scrapped in a couple of years anyway!
Do you feel better for that now?
Your analogy is flawed at best!
"Sky - Sod off. Don't ruin our sport. Stick to the games you cover already." <<<< This is so full of assumption and speculation its not even worth reading that last line!
Sky's aim is to make money, like it or not, it is at it's core, a money making machine! If they think they can make more money by covering F1 then they will, this is how they broaden their prospective market and thus they have to cover sports other than those they already do! How do you know they are going to "ruin our sport"? You don't do you, as you don't already have Sky Sports you wouldn't know how good or otherwise the coverage already is for other sport would you?
Other sport coverage on Sky is excellent from someone who has spent a fair amount of time watching Sky Sports I am looking forward to what they can bring us, maybe the coverage will be a little more intelligent, aimed at those who want to watch rather than just catering for the "every man" (which is an entirely different subject)(I have nothing against the current team though)
I am all for people being cross about the switch and I too have signed the petition on the gov site. Making unfounded speculations, assumptions and poor analogies is just silly!
I appreciate the BBC have to cut costs but the real question is why they didn't want to do a similar deal with a terrestrial rival thus retaining free-to-air coverage (albeit with some ads) if they were really that worried about keeping F1 free-to-air. If anyone suggested that a similar deal for the World Cup (half free, half pay-TV) there would be an outcry.
The real issue is that most other European countries will still get all races free-to-air but the UK, one of its biggest audiences will not - but F1 teams, unlike their footballing counterparts are dependent on sponsorship rather than pay-TV revenue and just how keen will sponsors be on vastly reduced exposure? I bet many of them have already been on the phone to their teams to demand to know just what the hell is going on. Highlights will never garner anything like the viewing figures of a live race, and I doubt they would be shown on BBC1 on a Sunday evening.
There is an alternative, however, get yourself a free-to-air satellite kit which can receive Germany's RTL and watch 2012 subscription free. The RTL show is easily as good as the BBC's, you can laugh at Kai Ebel's fashion "sense" instead of EJ's or you could just mute the sound and listen to Crofty & Ant D on Radio 5Live.
I don't think you have to pay £100+ for a TV licence either in the states
Hmm, Did I hit a nerve?
No I don't feel better. From next year I won't be able to watch the sport I love and have watched since 1976 ( I havn't missed a single televised race) because the BBC are failing to honour the contract they had in place and I can't justify / afford a sky subscription on top of the licence fee. Even if I could afford it it's a lot of money just to watch F1.
I have no interest in Football / Cricket / Golf . It wouldn't matter how good the coverage was. I happen to think the BBC's current coverage is fantastic and it really couldn't be improved upon.
I have a Mortgage, 4 children and My wife and I both work full time. Both our jobs are at risk in the current climate and we both work in sectors that were previously fairly secure. Utility bills, food bills are all on the rise.
I suspect that a vast majority are in a similar or even worse predicament. How many of these people do you think are going to commit themselves to hundreds of pounds a year when they don't even know if they'll still have a job at the end of the year? Unlike the BBC, if they break their Sky contract before the year is out they'll still be expected to honour it.
Watching half a season or highlights is pretty pointless.
I'm sure the BBC could have found other ways of saving money with a little more effort. If the figures are correct then although F1 was a big investment for the BBC it was a worthwhile investment that more than paid for itself.
Sorry if you feel it was a silly analogy. I was merely carrying on from the Badger comment " You wouldn't steal a car....." I wouldn't. But if someone stole my car I'd have no problems in taking it back. The BBC / Sky deal has stolen F1 from many people so if those people see an opertunity to take it back using illegal streaming sites who can blame them ? That was the point I was trying to make.
If thousands of people have to walk away from F1 because they can't afford to watch it then the sponsors will follow. That will hurt F1.
I won't be paying, partly because I can't afford it and partly because my house can't have it installed. If I've understood the situation in my house correctly, I will probably have to resort to Radio 5 over the internet next year as the TV will probably be tuned to something else entirely...
We already have Sky Sports in my household, as we found that we just couldn't do without the football, so it is no problem for me. OK, it is expensive, but if the coverage is going to be on a par with their football and other sports then it will be well worth it. That is going to depend on who they have as presenters, pundits and commentators. As long as they keep Tony Jardine away from it, I'm sure it will be fine on that front. Hopefully the interactive services will be as they were on the PPV service that was offered a few years ago - multiple feeds, choice of drivers to follow and which camera angle etc. All very good. It will be far superior to BBCs coverage in that respect.
Thanks Brian, Have been looking into the RTL option.
From what I have been reading you can get SD RTL with a freesat box and may even be able to program a Sky box to recieve it?. On one forum there was talk of being able to recieve RTL HD on a freesat box that could be purchased for 139.99 that included a years subscription. Renewing the subscription is about £50 a year thereafter for HD. That's a 90% cheaper than Sky! RTL does carry adverts though.
Hi Chris. I am converting an ancient analogue Sky dish that I already have up & am going down the SD route for cost reasons & cos I only have an SD TV - I don't reckon HD is that much better and as far as I know FP & Quali are only shown in SD (not 100% on this though). As far as I know you won't be able to watch RTL HD (as it requires a viewing card) on a Sky box and it is a big hassle to get German SD or other foreign language channels without mucking up the settings for the existing channels. A separate dish is easier - just one note of caution with RTL HD though, I know it is not marketed outside of Germany at all (not even in neighbouring Austria or Switzerland) so I would check that if you are buying a set up with a box and viewing card that the box is definitely compatible with the HD+ card for RTL HD and that you will 100% be able to view RTL HD content on it in the UK and be able to buy a new viewing card next year (or top it up online).
I nearly forgot...the last time I watched F1 on RTL they continue to show the race in a small box on the screen during the ad breaks
Sack the Top Gear boys, that should free up enough cash to keep all the F1 live
Personally I won't be stumping up for Sky. I used to watch every race live but nowadays I tend to record alot and watch them later. I even watched a highlights programme recently (the horror!). It was becasue the Canada coverage swapped channels and my video didn't keep up so I actually ended up adding 4 hours to my life by cutting out the filler.
I remember when it used to only be the Euro races on the Beeb and flyaways were highlights (except Australia) and that wasn't too bad so it might not be a massive issue anyway. I think they're going to try and skip the early morning races and show the euro / peak ones plus I heard a rumour they'll stream everything on iPlayer too.
I think my "meh" factor will come down to which races are live.
So long as they go for highlights of Barcelona, Valencia, Abu Dhabi and Bahrain and show live races for Brazil, Canada, Monaco, Britain, Belgium and Italy, I can take or leave the rest I think.
Grade A stuff. I'm uunqetsioanbly in your debt.
I have few things to say on this matter.
One - Martin and David have to stay. But if they have to go, at least get other people who know their stuff in on it. None of this Jonathan Legard crap. Seriously, he was the worst commentator ever in my opinion.
Two - Adverts need to be out of the equation. If they have to do it, they should 1000000% not be durring the race. It's not on. I can tollerate up to 3 ads durring the program max. ITV ads used to drive me insane, something would always happen when the ads were on!
Finally - (From BBC website) Barney Francis, managing director of Sky Sports, said "We will give F1 the full Sky Sports treatment with a commitment to each race never seen before on UK television."
I am going to be more open minded and look past the fee it is going to cost. I have no way of paying myself, and would prefer it stayed solely with BBC. However, if this statement is true, then this could actually be a really good thing. I don't know how they can improve on the BBC's coverage but we'll have to wait and see.
My verdict - I am not paying for F1 on Sky. There will be an alternative, whether it be technically illegal or not!
I already use Sky's (unbeatable) phone + broadband package so thought it might be easy for me to upgrade to a TV package as well as they keep trying to 'tempt' me with correspondance.
I looked into it and frankly they're a bunch of swindlers for what they try to do with the TV packages. I wanted to buy a sports-only package for the £20 a month they advertise it at, i made it clear in the email i'm not interested in the other crap that TV broadcasts consist of.
But in order to have any package you HAVE to have an "Entertainment" package to start with. So that's £20 a month for something i don't want and won't watch, plus as stupid Football is the #1 importance for every broadcasting company the F1 will NOT be shown on the basic Sky Sports 1 or 2 (Mark my words). So outlay of the £20 a month for the sports package will still be required on top of the £20 basic package.
I won't pay it.
The BBC are b**tards for not allowing Channel4 to stake a claim.
And SkyTV are thieves.
--
However if the BBC do go ahead with the Live Web broadcasts regardless of what they're doing on the TV, then perhaps they will claw back a little credibility with me. Just a little.
They just better make sure their servers can handle the extra strain of a million screwed-over F1 fans.